Did you know that homeowners paid or will pay 580% interest in the first year of their 30 year mortgage?

July 10, 2008 at 8:30 am 23 comments

Neither did I. But a Realtor in Mobile, Alabama wanted to enlighten the public and Dave Ramsey about this and tried convince us that United First Financial’s $3,500 computer software was worth every penny.

This is probably one of my longest posts. Mainly because it contains the transcript of a call to The Dave Ramsey Show on Monday, July the 7th in the 51st minute of the 2nd hour. For all of you who live in Mobile, Alabama and are looking for a realtor, beware of this woman:

Dave: “51 minutes after the hour, Rhonda is in Moblie. Hey Rhonda, what’s up?”

Rhonda: [chuckles]

Dave: “Rhonda, how are you?”

Rhonda: “I’m fine how are you?”

Dave: “Good, how can I help?”

Rhonda: “Um, I’m just a bit curious here. Um, I know that you teach, um, the principal of paying off your mortgage and being debt free..”

Dave: “I do.”

Rhonda: “..and that’s what everybody needs to be.”

Dave: “Mm heh”

Rhonda: “Um, but I’ve also heard you blast the United First Financial program and I just am wondering ..”

Dave: “I just finished blasting them”

Rhonda: “I know.. I heard you and I think you’re incorrect sir. And I just want to know, has anybody ever shown you how this works? Because it is not a ‘magical’ software, it is mathematical..”

Dave: “It’s useless.”

Rhonda: “..not magical.”

Rhonda: “And it is helping homeowners, in this country, save their homes from going into foreclosure..”

Dave: “No it’s not.”

Rhonda: “Yes it is.”

Dave: “Oh, that’s bull.”

Rhonda: “Well, okay. Is Earnst & Young reputable to you?”

Dave: “Baby doll..Earnst & Young hasn’t got anything to do with this.”

Rhonda: “Earnst & Young has named the company Entrepreneur of the Year”

Dave: “Basically, software does not keep people’s homes out of foreclosure.”

Dave: “Listen .. listen .. I know you’re caught in the multilevel cult thing..”

Rhonda: “It is not multilevel..”

Dave: “Yes it is!”

Rhonda: “You don’t know what you’re talking about!”

Dave: “Absolutely I do!”

Rhonda: “You do not know what you’re talking about.”

Dave: “Lady, you got .. do you not recruit people to go into your business?”

Rhonda: “Absolutely not!”

Dave: “You don’t recruit a soul to go into your business?”

Rhonda: “No. I do not recruit anyone. I show .. a software product ..”

Dave: “You’re business does..United First Financial recruits people .. they recruit .. they have hierarchies.”

Rhonda: “No they don’t Dave. You don’t know, that’s why I’m asking you, I challenge you..”

Dave: “I challenge you. I’ve been all through your website. It’s exactly what you say you do.”

Rhonda: “No, it helps people ..”

Dave: “No, no, no .. you recruit people ..”

Rhonda: “No, I do not recruit anybody .. all I do .. is share this with people .. and, then whenever they get on the program ..”

Dave: “.. to sell. Well, maybe you didn’t, but the business model is.”

Rhonda: “.. and see how much, how fast that they’re paying off their mortgage ..”

Dave: “It’s not paying off their mortgage, they are.”

Rhonda: “Of course they are. I mean ..”

Dave: “Do you know how they’re doing it?”

Rhonda: “.. the program doesn’t do anything except analyze ..”

Dave: “.. cause them to manage their money”

Rhonda: “.. your set of numbers, because everybody’s numbers are different. It simply calculates, because our brains cannot do that fast enough ..”

Dave: “Oh, we can’t use our brains..”

Rhonda: “.. and it tells you when is the most opportune time to utilize your money, not the bank’s money, but your money .. that equity is the homeowner’s money ..”

Dave: “Wait a minute .. stop a second ..”

Rhonda: “.. and if they’ve got equity in their home ..”

Dave: “.. stop a second ..”

Rhonda: “.. why can’t they use it whenever a, uh, state of the art ..”

Dave: “State of the art?”

Rhonda: “.. state of the art, computer program says, “Okay, Mr Ramsey, if you transfer this amount of money right now, straight to principal, you’re gonna save 7.6 years ..””

Dave: “Did you know that’s a lie?”

Rhonda: “I don’t think you can do that in your head ..”

Dave: “Did you know that that’s a lie?”

Rhonda: “No it is not.”

Dave: “Yes it is darling. The way a Fannie Mae mortgage works ..”

Rhonda: “Are you calling me a liar?”

Dave: “Yes I am.”

Rhonda: “Well, then you’re a liar .. you’re telling Americans ..”

Dave: “I’m just saying that a Fannie Mae mortgage, and FHA mortgage and a VA mortgage ..”

Rhonda: “.. that this is a rip-off ..”

Dave: “If you’ll listen a second lady, a Fannie Mae mortgage and a VA mortgage does not apply anything instantaneously based on .. based on a piece of computer software. The way you save on interest is once a month. They will not apply principal more than once a month. And there’s not a magical date that’s instantaneous ..”

Rhonda: “I know .. that’s why this program was invented.”

Dave: “That’s a lie.”

Rhonda: “No it’s not.”

Dave: “That’s a lie. That’s the way the mortgages work.”

Rhonda: [inaudible]

Dave: “I’ve been in the business for thirty years lady ..”

Rhonda: “Well, I’ve been a realtor for about twelve ..”

Dave: “.. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You’ve joined a multilevel, you believed everything they told you.”

Rhonda: “And I just know people get into debt. I think that you’re objection to it is that..”

Dave: “$3500 wasted ..”

Rhonda: “.. you’re not making money off of it.”

Dave: “.. is my objection to it. It’s $3500 wasted.”

Rhonda: “No it’s not.”

Dave: “You don’t get anything for the $3500.”

Rhonda: “It is a personalized computer program ..”

Dave: “Whoopee ”

Rhonda: “.. that will get you out of debt.”

Dave: “No it won’t ..”

Rhonda: “Yes it does .. it works!”

Dave: “You get you out of debt by living on less than you make.”

Rhonda: “No sir, it’s not about how much you make.”

Dave: “Yes it is.”

Rhonda: “It’s the fact that I don’t really think you understand how it works.”

Dave: “I absolutely understand how it works. I’ve been through the whole thing in detail.”

Rhonda: “You couldn’t and then get on the air and tell Americans, “oh that’s a rip-off””

Dave: “[chuckles] It is a total scam.”

Rhonda: “This company is .. is .. it’s only been around two years.”

Dave: “It’s a total scam.”

Rhonda: “No it is not.”

Dave: “It’ll be gone in two more years.”

Rhonda: “And for all of the American listeners go to u1st.com and .. I had hoped that I would get somewhere with you, because I’ve listened to you for several years, and I like you, okay? But, I do wonder, has anybody ever really shown you how this works?”

Dave: “Well, no, I haven’t attended your multilevel meeting I can promise you that ..”

Rhonda: “We don’t have multilevel meetings.”

Dave: “.. but we’ve been through every piece of the detail that you’re company will put out. Listen, the simple fact is this, when you buy $3500 worth of software, you still have to live on less than you make in order to apply principal, is that correct?”

Rhonda: “That would be correct in any situation of course.”

Dave: “Okay, so .. why does the software help?”

Rhonda: “Because you get to be your bank. You get to use your money, and you get to stop paying all the interest .. when you buy .. when you get a mortgage you know that the first year on a thirty-year traditional $100,000 mortgage, you’re paying 580% interest. They’re not paying 6%.”

Dave: “That is not true.”

Rhonda: “It is true.”

Dave: “You do not pay 580% the first year.”

Rhonda: “I’ve learned this from my real estate business.”

Dave: “You don’t know how to do math lady.”

Rhonda: “Oh .. okay, okay ..”

Dave: “It’s a simple amortization schedule. Now, an amortization schedule is based on simple interest. Anybody that’s got a finance degree can understand this.”

Rhonda: “This is .. no ..”

Dave: “You don’t even have to have a finance degree to understand it.”

Rhonda: “I have been a realtor with Remax for 10 years okay, and I know what I’m talking about.”

Dave: “No you don’t. I hope to God nobody buys a house from you if you think that 580% interest is what somebody gets charged in the first thirty years.”

Rhonda: “In the first year of the mortgage ..”

Dave: “In the first year of the mortgage the interest rate is five .. the effective yield is 580%?”

Rhonda: “They don’t pay anything towards principal, what $5 a payment goes to to principal?”

Dave: “Do you know why?”

Rhonda: “This is about canceling the interest ..”

Dave: “Do you not know how an amortization schedule works and you’ve been a realtor for eight years?”

Rhonda: “I do know how an amortization schedule works, yes ..”

Dave: “How does it work?”

Rhonda: “It shows you how much interest you’re paying out ..”

Dave: “It shows you how much .. and how much”

Rhonda: “.. and when it ..”

Dave: “And how much of the interest, in the first payment of 360 payments on a thirty year .. how is the interest calculated in the first payment?”

Rhonda: “It is compounded interest ..”

Dave: “No, it is not compounded ..”

Rhonda: ” Yes it is.”

Dave: “It is calculated in amortization schedule on a simple interest basis, that’s how an amortization schedule is developed. You take the .. you take the”

Rhonda: “I’m not .. I just wanted to know ..”

Dave: “.. let me tell you how it works. Let me explain to you how it works.”

Rhonda: “.. if you really knew what u1st was ..”

Dave: “Listen, you need to go back and do the math, ’cause here’s how it works ..”

Rhonda: “No .. I would like for you to ..”

Dave: “You take the interest rate and divide it by twelve .. do what?”

Rhonda: “I would like for you to look at the program again.”

Dave: “I don’t need to look at it again. It’s a total scam.”

Rhonda: “Okay ..”

Dave: “It’s a waste of $3500 of the consumers good money.”

Rhonda: “No, it’s the best $3500 ever spent. If you save $80,000 ..”

Dave: “You save $80,000 ..”

Rhonda: “.. by saving interest ..”

Dave: “.. by getting out of debt early. Lady, you are thick. You are truly thick. You need to get out of the multilevel cult and use your brain again. When you tell people 580% interest in the first year, it really shows your ignorance. It’s really sad. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books.”


Entry filed under: Debt, Debt Reduction, Real Estate and Mortgages. Tags: , , , , .

I busted our budget Are most Americans really struggling financially?

23 Comments Add your own

  • 1. 2million  |  July 11, 2008 at 1:52 am

    Wow – Im speechless. I can’t believe Remax employees people like this…scary

  • 2. Clay  |  July 11, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    There are all types of people in every company. You can have 1,000 completely professional people in anything, and no matter where you go, you will run in to one “off beat” individual. No matter the company, you will always find someone like this.

  • 3. joetaxpayer  |  July 11, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Thanks for this post. I’ve written on my blog about the Money Merge account, as well as joined in responding on other blogs on this topic. Funny, if you pay $3500, it will cost you nearly $6520 after the 10 yrs interest accrues.
    The average person may not be able to write the spreadsheet to understand the effect of prepaying their mortgage each month, but they can google and find dozens of good spreadsheets they can pull down and see for themselves. MMA isn’t magic, it’s a way of turning a simple spreadsheet that’s free into something so confusing they can charge $3500. I’m happy to send the sheet to anyone who’d like a copy.

  • 4. 35% Off.....  |  July 16, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    I thought that was a funny segment. I would love to have a sophisticated amitorization schedule to show me how much I can save. Am i willing to pay 3,500 nah more like 10 bucks I am cheap lol

    altho I do think you can find those calculators and charts online for free

  • 5. rhonda turner  |  July 20, 2008 at 10:36 am

    i am the “sick realtor” who was brave enough to go on the air with mr. ramsey…i am not going to argue with anyone – your opinions of me matter not…i know i have a proven product that is helping change SOME Americans lives…those who are open minded and looking for a way out of debt – other than buying dave ramseys program making him richer and richer – should truly check out what United First Financial is all about…it’s not a scam folks…Ernst & Young doesn’t award their top award to a “pyramid”…this software is customized – for YOU…it analyzes YOUR debt. mortgage, income and serves as a GPS to get you to ZERO the fastest way possible…i am an AWESOME realtor! ask any of my clients! this is just another way i have found to help them get their homes paid off faster and saving them mega dollars in interest they are paying back to that lender just to have a home…visit me at rhondaturner.com and check it out for yourselves…

  • 6. J Guercia  |  July 20, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    what would Jesus do in a situation as the above. Any christian i do believe should not be talking down about a company and/or a realtor. This really saddens me. Everyone has the right to their opinion about anything in life. Just because you don’t agree does not give you the right to tear someone’s believe down. This is so not right in the biblical sense. I truly do not understand – it all sounds like fear based assumptions. I have checked u1st Finanical out and it is a legtimate company doing great things in America as Dave Ramsey program does – why can’t that be?? Why must Mr. Ramsey fill the need to tear it down? Its funny because in checking out U1st they say very nice things about Mr. Ramsey’s programs and do not tear him down – if anything my prayers is that the bashing would stop and Mr. Ramsey just keep endorsing his programs to those who would like to listen. I myself think they both have great programs and as American’s we have the choice to choose which one works best for our family and/or we could choose to do our own thing as i have. I have to search my heart though as to when I hear and see christians act in this way – its not godly!!

  • 7. Craig Hansen  |  July 24, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Rhonda andJ Guercia, there are a lot of things people can have an opinion on. Math is not one of those things. With simple math, either you are right, or you are wrong. Everybody outside of this MMA cult thinks you’re wrong.

    You are going to point out the magazines and Ernst&Young, aren’t you? E&Y sponsored those awards – they didn’t investigate the companies. The magazines, including Broker Banker, PREIM, and any other rag that promotes UFF have heavy, heavy UFF advertising content, and very low circulation. Kiplinger’s has a much larger circulation, and they warn against the MMA.

    This is not about opinions or jesus or anything other than math, and the MMA fails.

  • 8. jferheart  |  July 25, 2008 at 8:23 am

    It amazes me that anyone would want to put down a product that can HELP people get out of debt….why? Don’t we need a solution?
    Who cares if you think that you can do it yourselves? Do it then….don’t keep writing about it and putting something down that is REALLY helping people.
    United First and the Money Merge Account doesn’t fail…..where do you get that kind of information? Have you bought the program and followed everything that it says and it didn’t WORK????

    I am sure that you have not….so why trash it? If you have a better system and can mass produce it to help ALL americans that are in debt….then DO IT. Dave Ramsey is trying and United FIrst is trying…..do you have any other ideas? Sure, make a spreadsheet, follow it as you would a budget….that is a great idea. What about everyone else? How are you going to help them?
    $3500 is a small investment when you look at the outcome, I have spent more then that in clothing that I have gotten rid of after a couple of years! Come on….what is the BIG DEAL ???? i COULD never FIGURE OUT how to pay our $230,000 mortgage and $150,000 business loan OFF in 4.3 years……but am doing so with the Money Merge Account. On top of that….it is working so great that I don’t even notice it happening. No figuring, no checks to write, no worries about anything.
    Why fight something that is working and start helping other people accomplish the same thing….debt freedom and stress relief.

  • 9. Craig Hansen  |  July 25, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    What’s the big deal? People are throwing away $3500 at a time at the insistence of UFF agents who have no clue what they’re talking about.

    Let’s look at your $230,000 mortgage and $150,000 business loan. To be paid off in 4.3 years, you say. With what? You’ve provided the software with income and expenses to arrive at that 4.3 years. What were they?

    And try to answer without shouting. I’m not shouting at you.


  • 10. shaferfinancial  |  July 29, 2008 at 6:52 am

    How pathetic, you call Ramsey to push your product and then when he tells you the truth, you try to argue with him. Then you make claims that are demonstratebly false. Virtually everyone that isn’t selling this product, that has a finance background says the same thing, this is a waste of money.

  • 11. Tony Mathews  |  August 8, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    I agree, why would anyone call it a scam if it were not? Why do you think the web shouts SCAM SCAM SCAM on every page you look at?

    Simply, the software hides the calculations becuase if you were to do them yourselves you would realize you could easily save more money yourself. UFF takes more time then if you simply pre paid yourself.

    If you did it yourself you wouldn’t need to do any math or software, just look at your bank statement and put every dollar you can afford towards your mortgage. The money merge account just hides this fact by shifting your own money around.

    The Money Merge Account does not “have your money working for you” It takes out a loan at a higher interest (HELOC) and pays down a lower interest debt (1st mortgage).

    Anyone that truly understands mortgages knows that is one of the dumbest things you can do.

    Stay away from this scam!

    By the way, when asked E&Y if they endorsed UFF, they clearly said no. They said that they sponsor the award but have NOTHING to do with who is chosen.

    Not to mention that this is an award given to the owners of the company, not the product. Anyone that can get people to buy a product for $3500 that might be worth $50 is a true genius!

    Bottom line is the people that buy this do not truly know how it works. Actually they don’t know that it does not work the way they think it does. They believe that the Money Merge Account is what is saving them $100,000 in interest. UFF hides the fact that it is the persons own extra money from their paycheck that is saving them the interest. And it does it worse/slower then you could do yourself by simply sending in the money on your own, avoiding the costly HELOC and useless software.

  • 12. joetaxpayer  |  August 10, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Tony – prepayment does account for 98-100% of the savings, but there are circumstances where the HELOC does add a bit to that. In the classic example, $5000 of monthly flow with mortgage due at month’s end. If you look at this person’s checking statement, their average balance may be $3000, and earning 1%, if that much. The flip side is that if he used a HELOC, he’d have an average HELOC balance of $2000 to make a full $5000 available to pay toward the mortgage with the prior month’s payment. The mortgage rate may be 6%, so he saves $300/yr by making that prepayment. The HELOC ave balance is $2000, maybe 8%, costing $160/yr. And he only would earn $30 on the average $3000. So, in this example, he gets ahead by $110/yr. A HELOC typically has a $50/yr fee. So in the end, the savings is tiny.
    When MMA agents present this, they somehow attribute the magic to the HELOC process, but as you can see, the savings while greater than zero, are not significant by any means.

  • 13. Tony Mathews  |  August 11, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Joe – You are correct that the HELOC can save you pennies when operated correctly, but as you know this would never be enough to justify the software cost. The reason why the UFF owners created the system around using the money merge account (HELOC) is because it confuses the clients. Not to mention the creators are mortgage brokers who collect commission on new HELOC accounts.

    The agents of this product, either deceptively or unknowingly, attribute the savings of interest to the HELOC shuffle (again, this only saves pennies). The ONLY reason people buy the software is because they believe the HELOC is saving them HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in interest – this just is not true and I really wish it was, but it is not! The “clients” don’t realize that their extra money is indirectly going to their mortgage. They believe that the software does something that it does not because many of the agents do not know the truth themselves.
    THE BIG LIE: “Pay down your mortgage in half to 1/3 the time with little or no change to lifestyle.” It’s a claim that is on the UFF web site, it’s a claim that the majority of the agents make, impressive, but a lie. In order for the software to work, you would have to drastically change your spending habits. No going to the movies, spending money on designer clothes, going out to dinner, etc. All of your discretionary income filters through the HELOC and goes right to the mortgage. IF THAT IS NOT LIFE CHANGING, I DON’T KNOW WHAT IS!

    “Clients” do not buy the software as a motivational tool, and that is about the only value the software has. Anyone could replicate this motivation by using a free mortgage calculator to figure out how much they save by not buying something, and sending that money towards their mortgage.

    Using a calculator is easier then logging onto a website and inputting the appropriate field. Calculators are free, or very cheep.

    In the real world I believe the HELOC would be too tempting to many people and would cause them to get deeper into debt.

    I have asked agents how this software outperforms other tools that anyone can use for free or for maybe 2% of the cost of UFF, to this day I have no reply.

  • 14. Craig Hansen  |  August 13, 2008 at 10:25 am

    jferheart has still not answered my question about how she is getting the wonderful results she claims from the MMA.

    jferheart even took the time to email me a broken video link that was supposed to explain the MMA (I’ve seen plenty, thanks), but has not answered the question. She is making extraordinary claims. She should have to back them up.

  • 15. HOKIEFAN1  |  August 28, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Ok, here’s my take on this. I have looked at 3 ways of getting out of my house note in 9 years, or on my 40th birthday. Here are my 3 scenarios: Each one assumes I have 800/month in extra income to pay my house down. I have no other debt.

    Primerica SMART Loan- 13 years 11 months

    Current 30 yr note fixed at 5.625% taken out 4 years ago: 13 years 8 months

    MMA-8 years 8 months

    Please if anyone can tell me how this software is not worth it I would be most appreciative.

  • 16. joetaxpayer  |  August 29, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Ok, the original balance was about $311K? And you have $295K left? Normal payment is $1789.
    The extra $800 will pay it off by 13.6 yrs from now. I suspect an agent offered to have you put the $20K you suggested is in checking go right to your mortgage. (Or actually, I see them suggest that you tap the HELOC for for say $23,000, immediately pay $20,000 toward the HELOC and marvel that you only had $5 interest that first month when you did this two days shy of the statement getting cut.)
    If you send the $20K, you drop to having only 12 yrs 3 months left.
    Someone is telling you that you can drop by another 3 years 7 months. This would mean saving 43 more payments, or nearly $77K. My spreadsheet matches any MMA projections I’ve seen within normal varience (i.e. the $3500 fee plus interest attributable to fee, and the few hundred dollars the HELOC shuffle might save.) The numbers you offer are so far off, and mine so close to Primerica’s numbers, I suggest you send your numbers to a different agent just to confirm the projection. Agents are trained to obfuscate the issues and offer you anecdotes that are unrelated to the numbers. If they can’t answer every question you have in a way that you can understand, you have to decide whether to go in on faith. Many agents also speak about Biblical matters and refer to God and their beliefs. Don’t let that throw you, either. Faith in one’s religion is very different than in a plan designed to separate you from your money. Prepay your mortgage the $800/mo and send the $3500 to your house of worship or local shelter, if you wish. I’ll repeat, nothing about the numbers is complicated, and not only don’t you need any software, you don’t need a spreadsheet, unless you wish to obsessively track your progress. I send the spreadsheet to anyone who requests it.

  • 17. Sue  |  June 20, 2009 at 10:27 am

    I find it funny, and sad, to read some of these older blogs now. Anyone can be an “expert” on the internet now… not only don’t they need facts… they apparently don’t even have to look at, try, or use, the thing they are spouting an opinion about (isn’t that the definition of the word prejudice? to “pre-judge” before one has facts/evidence?).

    UFirst has made so many innovations with the Money Merge Account software and we have so, SO many clients who have used it successfully to get out of debt.

    As of summer 2009… UFirst clients have paid down more than 350 million in principle on their mortgages. That doesn’t count higher interest rate date, which is generally paid off first.

    There is something seriously wrong with someone who claims to be a Christian but who will use the kind of tone and language that Dave used with this woman. WWJD? I suspect, not treat someone like this.

    Of course, coming from a Radio background I realize that shows are about ratings and that verbally abusing people is a great way to boost ratings and revenue. People will tune in to hear the train wreck.

    Dave has admitted not using the program… or even seeing the program in action. But it doesn’t stop him from beating others over the head with his opinion. I bet he took every car he ever bought for a test drive first…. yet he has not done that with this program (what would happen if he actually discovered that it DID work better than his, would he admit it and risk losing sales of his own system?).

    Of course, we all have to make a living and Dave has his own debt products to sell.. and I’m SURE they work fine for some folks. However I have had more than one client who tried getting out of debt using Dave’s system… but ultimately couldn’t stick to it.

    The thing that is the biggest factor in the success of the Money Merge Account system is it’s ability to help people STICK to the program. Why? Part of the reason is that it’s easy to follow, takes very little time and acts sort of like a “magic mirror.”

    If you were on a diet and had a “magic mirror” that showed you NOT what you looked like now… but what you will look like in a year if you stick to the diet… wouldn’t you be more likely to be motivated to stay with it?

    THAT’s one of the things this system does and why people are finding it so easy to get out of debt with it.

    Hopefully people will investigate for themselves and not just listen to the opinions of people who haven’t so much as “TEST driven” the system.

    I just pray that people don’t lose hope though. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you haven’t been successful on your own.. get Dave’s program… if you can’t stick to it.. then investigate the Money Merge Program. But do your OWN research and do SOMETHING different.

  • 18. JoeTaxpayer  |  July 9, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    Sue – Amazing how many agents are defecting, even Jubilee has taken their ball and gone home. I don’t agree with Dave on everything, his debt snowball for instance, but here, he was spot on. I’ve shown that MMA math is flawed. The HELOC expense exceed any savings it should create, and I proved it with numbers from the UFF video. Magic Mirror? More like smoke and mirrors.

  • 19. JoeTaxpayer  |  July 10, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Sue – if you will, why not come to http://tinyurl.com/ms925f and answer the question that seems so simple, but the agents are tripping over their tongues trying to answer? If not, I understand, numbers are not the agents’ strong point.

  • 20. chaka42  |  July 10, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Sue – Old blog? I suppose a year off is a long time on the Internet.

    To be honest, I’ve never claimed to be an expert in finances, however, I understand personal finances. One only needs to understand simple math in that regard. And when I do simple math, the MMA product is, quite frankly, ridiculous. It’s being marketed as a magic pill and sold for $3500. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that it’s a gimmick. Sure, a gimmick that works some of the time, but if it walks and quacks like a duck, well, you know the saying. As Joe Taxpayer has stated previously, the math just doesn’t work.

    And, for a product to claim that a change in lifestyle or behavior isn’t necessary for it to work is bogus. Where is all this extra money coming from to pay extra? It’s coming from places those individuals were spending before they bought into this deal.

    Lastly, to insinuate that Dave’s behavior is un-Christian is simply ludicrous. Apparently Christians are supposed to walking mats and defensive, but that is far from the truth. If people are attempting to harm others they have to be called out. Period.

  • 21. JoeTaxpayer  |  July 22, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Funny Sue, I read your note again, and would like to ask you, WWJD? Do you think He’d fall for your scam? Do you think He’d sell it to His own followers as others try to sell it in His name? You drop in, make some meaningless remarks, then disappear. Why is it you never stay and answer legit questions? Why do you think the Australian SEC is now cracking down on this system? I’ll tell you why – they ‘did the math’.
    Are you willing to start answering questions directly asked of you, or do you want to continue posting your rhetoric? Simple question, really.

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